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Post by oldschool on Aug 28, 2010 14:45:22 GMT -5
If you pay a little more and pull another 6 or so Super Lates or BB Mods you really aren't going to add that many more fans in the stands. What you need to realize is that ANY class of locally owned and driven car brings not only the owner and driver and crew but family and neighbors, co-workers, etc. I agree with Ubugme19 in that a real low budget class is needed. A street stock or Thundercar class that can be financed for a couple thousand. The current so called starter classes are like $10,000 to be competitive. The trick to a class like this is strict rules to keep someone from dumping tons of money in it. Something like 2 bl carb, stock manifolds, tire limit and strict inspection. You would get at least as many as the crates in this class. Can you imagine the number of people 20 -30 LOCAL cars would bring with them. It is sad to see the primeir classes car counts so low and I would hate to lose either but there are very few dirt tracks on the east coast that run both. The fact is we have some great drivers in the top two divisions and the fans have their favorites but I argue that a street stock car will bring 10 to 20 people with them to a race counting family, friensd, etc and if Jimmy Horton or Stewart Friesen or who ever you think is a big dog, comes to Delmar to race they will bring the driver and small crew. The people coming to watch the street stock pay the same to get in their seat but the increase pay outs you are talking about would pay the whole street stock class. I would love to have the answer and wish paying more was it but in this economy I just don't think a bigger payout is going to fix the problem.
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Post by 1969racing on Aug 28, 2010 15:46:43 GMT -5
This an interesting discussion and, both sides have great points. I think that there are too many classes now but, I can't argue the point because they bring people as you stated and right now that is what the track needs. If Jay or anyone else for that matter could get Georgetown and run weekly as someone above stated it would be probably the best thing that could happen. If anyone else remembers when both tracks ran the same classes on a weekly basis all of the cars competed at both tracks and the stands were mostly full every week at both tracks. And although we did not have all of the modern communication I do not remember anyone complaing about the purses. I also agree that a budget class, such as the old hobby cars would add competitors and fans and be affordable, which class would you eliminate? I don't know the answer, just want racing on Delmarva to survive.
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Post by oldschool on Aug 28, 2010 17:06:44 GMT -5
It appears we have a bunch of classes costing close to the same. Crate Mods, crate lates, Mod Lites and Little Lincolns. And like I said, $10,000 is a stiff starter class. Then you have the two premier classes that I assume cost close to the same. I don't have the answer but have to believe we are running too many classes in the same cost range. You are correct 1969racing about plenty of cars between G-town and Delmar back then but you only had the one pemier class, then you had 6cyl Mods and street stocks. Plus even the Modifieds were more affordable then. Cost has just gotten so out of hand and with the economy what it is not many can afford to race today.
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Post by ubugme19 on Aug 28, 2010 23:33:55 GMT -5
lets see there is the power bill, taxes, fuel, chemicals for the track, employees, up keep on all the equipment, insurance, just to name a few. The other thing would anyone on here work all week to just break even if so i have a job for you. Do the math. Look at how many people are there, what they paid to get in. There is no way that it costs that much to operate the track weekly. Yes he has to pay for fuel for the water trucks the pace car safety vehicles and the annoying golf cart for security. He has to pay for the upkeep on them as well. Not sure of the chemicals except for the blue water in the port-a-potties. I think the EPA put the smackdown on the use of chemicals on the track surface. I see your point but after all, it is a business and all of those expenses are tax deductible for 1. For 2 if he was "breaking even" he would've closed up years ago. No one is saying pay $20G's to win every week. $2500 to win a 25 lap race is not asking a whole lot from a promoter. Another thing is car count directly affects the amount of spectators. That is why I drove up to B'port for 6 years instead of going to DIS in the late 90's. B'port paid more and the cars followed as did the fans, and we were home before midnight even when they ran URC. Heck I left B'port 1 night and made it to DIS as they were dropping the green on the 1st feature, which were dwarf cars back then. As far as what class to drop, it would definitely have to be the mod lites. On that big track, they are a snooze. Leave them to Middleford and little B'port. Then I would alternate the crate classes. This would give some of the lower budget guys time to get their cars back together and cut the racing bills in half, literally. Then add a pure stock V8 class with STRICT and ENFORCED rules. All the rules in the world are not gonna help if they are not enforced. But as with anything these are just my opinions.
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Post by finishline4 on Aug 29, 2010 8:38:24 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of points made. we need a cheaper class, and yes, there are too many classes in the same cost-range and i personally think there are too many classes period. You have five regular divisions and usually another special division each night like URC's, L. Lincolns, or Vintage. That's about 6 divisions a night. I would rather see about four a night. I would like to see four divisions a night and watch classes like the crates run heats instead of qualifying.
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Post by aroundwego on Aug 29, 2010 9:13:42 GMT -5
now you want to drop classes but still want a higher purse. How can that happen with the loss of income. Both of the classes you want to drop (should i say drop one rotate the other )have a better showing than the BB and LM. I think it is a no win situation. I love racing and would stay for 2 more classes if added. Running heats i think is alot better than time trials. It is an upcoming class so give them some more time on the track racing.
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Post by oldschool on Aug 29, 2010 14:25:46 GMT -5
I am not trashing Charlie. I think Charlie wishes he had the answer to putting more people in the stands. Thats probably why he is trying so many special shows this year. This isn't about trashing anybody or putting a specific class of cars down. Its discussion about what might save local racing. I absolutely love the BB Mods and Super Lates and enjoy the crates and Little Lincolns but the races run too long for many people and the economy is wearing on the people that can afford to run any class let alone the top two classes. Charlie does a great job and we are lucky to have Delaware International. But it appears to be in need of some changes and perhaps someone may actually have a legit idea on here. I have to tell you, when I have been to the races there this year (about 6 times) the number of spectators bothered me far more than the car counts.
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Post by badboy on Aug 29, 2010 15:35:15 GMT -5
dieselracer Your Angel Charlie does not trash people!!!!!!!!!! No he just says bend over you lose your turn now I get 2 turns. Its my track so we play my way
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Post by robertfisher on Aug 29, 2010 17:36:39 GMT -5
i wonder if one night after all qualifying is done,if the track is in good shape ,no potholes, let the drivers know,and not groom the track.take a 15 minute intermission. i know a lot of older racefans that used to go but they wont come now because they said its over so late. if they didnt take such a long intermission,i think a lot more people would come.if the track is bad then groom it,but only if necessary. it might even be better for the drivers and crew to get an extra hour sleep each sunday.
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Post by SLM fan on Aug 29, 2010 17:55:01 GMT -5
15 minute intermission. I remember them. Boy that takes me back. I have talked with a couple drivers at the Outlaw shows over the last coupla years and they were amazed that Charlie even cut the track at intermission. Most tracks you run it as is. At VMS and Hagerstown they don't touch the track. Of course they have a different surface. I am sure Charlie would love not to get on the ole grader at intermission but he wants the track to be in good shape for the features. I'm sure he is doing the best he can and I applaud him for it. That being said I know I am lookin at a 45 intermission and can fire up the grill, have a few beers, or head to the Mall.
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Post by 1969racing on Aug 29, 2010 17:58:29 GMT -5
Some of the people on here complain about the low purses and the cost of putting a car on the track. They have never complained about the cost of an overly extravagant, overpriced hauler to haul a race car in. If they just trailered a car behind a pickup truck and put what they needed in the back of the truck they could save thousands. That is the way everyone used to get their stuff around, including The Winston Cup Cars!!!
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Post by ubugme19 on Aug 29, 2010 20:09:32 GMT -5
There's one in every crowd, guess who's the 1 in this crowd. How does a conversation on ideas that we believe would work be Charlie bashing? Read above post referring to 1 of the best facilities on the east coast. No one is bashing Charlie. Most people on here can carry on an intelligent conversation without resorting to calling people names. Evidently you are not 1 of those people. I can't speak for everyone on here by no means, but most of us have been to many many races at some tracks that haven't existed for decades. We've seen tracks close for different reasons. We've seen great tracks go down to mismanagement, we've seen promoters take the purse money and sneak out during the race, we've even seen a track close because of a near by hospital complaining of dirt clogging their HVAC filters every week. We take these experiences and create ideas on what we believe would help DIS with car counts and the fans that follow. Again, it's not like we are asking for $20G's to win every week. One last thing...ENFORCE THE RULES THE SAME WAY EVERY WEEK. The haulers are a personal choice for their team. Bob Mc Cready towed his stuff on an old 80' something GMC car hauler and won many many races. To borrow his words "A shiny new trailer won't help your car turn left." Most of the oversized haulers were bought before the economy tanked. Not that it makes it any different.
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Post by dirtfan65 on Aug 30, 2010 12:00:37 GMT -5
now you want to drop classes but still want a higher purse. How can that happen with the loss of income. Both of the classes you want to drop (should i say drop one rotate the other )have a better showing than the BB and LM. I think it is a no win situation. I love racing and would stay for 2 more classes if added. Running heats i think is alot better than time trials. It is an upcoming class so give them some more time on the track racing. This is true. I have a good friend who races Crate LM, he brings with him every week 5 guys into the pits and a min of 12 family members in the spectator stands. I also have a friend who races modlites. He brings with him 4 guys into the pits and 10 family members in the spectator stands EVERY WEEK! Look at all these people paying to get in, as well as eating, just for 2 drivers that some think should be eliminated. I have to add that neither one of these drivers I'm talking about have ever had a win.
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Post by blades65 on Aug 30, 2010 21:51:11 GMT -5
I think Charlie should have a preseason meeting with drivers and owners and allow us to voice our opinions on such things as rules,payouts,teching,point averages, and many other issues that have been brought up in this post. I think 1-2 people calling him complaining or posting on a forum doesn't acomplish anything if he has to face all of us drivers/owners in a scheduled meeting,I think all our realistic changes will be at least heard and maybe an answer for doing what he does. If we had answers for some of the issues or complaints we face as drivers/ownrs maybe there would be differant opinions on what Charlie thinks of us
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Post by lumberjack on Aug 31, 2010 10:26:35 GMT -5
That sounds like a great idea. The only problem is no one will stick together. What is needed is a type of a driver/ owners association or union that could help an agreement be made for purses, rules, safety, etc. I understand this is the Cathels livelyhood. But it is 2010 things need to change. People do have opinions and it's easy to be an " armchair quaterback" But I think some good points have been brought up. It's hard to understand how it works from the fan point of view with the money, time and work involved. But don't get me wrong fans are important too. This year the schedule has changed a little. Seems more to fill the stands than anything else.There has been little to benefit the teams in return. The wings races did pay a few bucks more only on the top. But twin 20's were a joke. The money was cut almost in half(unless you won). Twice the laps on equiptment. We don't race for the payout but we need whatever we can get to keep going. When the money runs out it's break time, With the pay like it is break time is sooner than we think. There could be enough for all to be happy, but that would require compromise. Don't know that the powers that be are willing to ease up on that grip. I think if that were to happen you would or could see some real racing. Everyone would be supporting or promoting the track. There are a lot of people that don't come to the track because of the single sidedness. Just imagine how good it could be. I'd love to be able to see other cars come from the north or across the bridge. It could happen. I don't want to sound negative & don't want the track to be gone. I just think it could be a really good thing with some comromise.
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Post by ogbracin on Aug 31, 2010 13:21:28 GMT -5
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by chase22 on Aug 31, 2010 15:11:55 GMT -5
I would think if you contacted him an proposed something that it could happen but someone would have to make that inital first step and not just talk about it or post it on the web.Someone needs to step and get r dun.
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Post by ogbracin on Sept 1, 2010 8:57:06 GMT -5
I'm sure Charlie has heard this complaint thru the years from owner's and driver's and probably has heard everything else to from the tire rules, bonus money etc....... Bottom line is he's gonna do thing's his way, if you like it good for him and if you don't then so what, he has everyone that owns a car were he wants them simply because there is no comp. in this area...... Simple Economics SUPPLY AND DEMAND!!!!!!! He knows he can get away with doing that, just like he knows what goes on at his track but greed is more powerful than doing what's fair... Example the tire rule.... look it's obvious he can't make a open tire rule because the bigger budget teams would dominate there class's plain and simple.... but to be fair to us he could still stamp his tire's but give us a few option's of different compounds so we don't burn so many tire's up thru the year that would be fair. Instead he makes everyone run a tire that clearly doesn't work good on the track because he does the tires are not going to hold up for the track conditions....` ding ding people more money for him and other people that are involved....... And that is one of many examples!!!!! I truly believe if all the owner's/driver's went to him and asked for certain thing's like better purse's, better pay thru the field and better rules etc...... he would say thanks for the year's and the support but that's it lady's and gentlemen I've decided to close the speedway..... It's a simple fix we need the racing to come back to G-town full time, that's the only way anything will have a chance of changing here and to keep dirt racing here...... So fan's,owner's and driver's let's do the right thing and support G-town at there race's when they have a event starting this Sunday the 5th. No one is going to move forward on opening this place full time if there isn't the support to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by thatdude on Sept 1, 2010 10:29:02 GMT -5
Georgetown stinks anymore. It would be a shot in the dark if that place ever opens full-time again. Jay, I dont think will do it, even though there was word the last couple of years that he might. With the show that he put on up at Bridgeport in July, I would sense that he would try and run a couple shows on Saturday night with the SLM, and possibly Crate cars. The mod lites already run on Fri nights up there, and anyone can take their Big Block on any Saturday night. Georgetown I believe is on the way out. Charlie's track is a very facility and it is the only one we have around here, we need him a WHOLE lot more than he needs us. I agree maybe with the tire rule, maybe give the guys/gals couple compounds to choose from. Like limiting the RR no lower than a 44 and the other three, no lower than a 38 or 33 or something along those lines. Other than that, the pay most likely wont change, cars still show up now with the pay and complain on here all the time but they still show up. Why? Because they love to race and have no other place close to home besides Georgetown 3 times a year. The rules, with the point avg I agree as well, stinks, just pill draw before the drivers meeting each night and its over. Heat race by the pill draw and line up features by heat finish. Either way, we can sit here and complain and b%tch and bellar but most likely we are preaching to the choir and just gonna have to keep on keeping on at one of the best facilities here on the eastern shore.
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Post by 1969racing on Sept 1, 2010 19:35:01 GMT -5
There was once an organization called Delmarve Auto Racing Association, D.A.R.A as they were commonly known that was originally devoted to standing up for the owners and drivers. (Someone even older than I may be a little clearer on some of this) If memory serves me right this organization originated when the Delmar track was on the other side of the dragway. Early on it was just Delmar and the organization pretty much belonged to them. When Georgetown got involved Delmar dropped out. The organization eventually was just Georgetown and also organized the races for the State Fair. I agree with ogbracin about supporting Georgetown all that we can though, it's the only chance we have of someone taking it on a full time basis. I think I mentioned this earlier when both tracks were operating full time, all of the local drivers supported them and the crowds were good at both tracks. Just me dreaming I guess !!!
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Post by tornado15 on Sept 3, 2010 7:08:31 GMT -5
First, I think the crowds at Delmar this year have been higher than the past 5 years. There has been a couple of off nights but overall the place looks more populated than a long time. Thatdude, if you start the features heads up on the heats for the LM and Mods, how exciting a race is that going to be? The excitement of the 2 features now is to see who comes through the field first.
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Post by aroundwego on Sept 3, 2010 8:11:55 GMT -5
but those guys that run up front sure would save alot of money
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Post by thatdude on Sept 3, 2010 9:40:40 GMT -5
They dont necessarily have to start HEADS UP, because i agree with you, if you start heads up then it might be a little boring but i dont think it would be as boring as you think. Look at it now, same people starting up front every week, same people winning every week, unless the track locks down then, someone in the top 3 starting spots pretty much going to win. Just cause you win a heat and start in top 2 doesnt mean you will win. That track changes from hot laps to heat races to feature races it seems. Maybe this will work pill draw when you sign in, odd numbers start in the HEAT 1, even numbers in HEAT 2 lowest number on pole and down the line. Top 3-4 in each heat redraw for top 6-8 spots in feature, then heads up after that. Never know where your going to start until Saturday night. Now they pretty much know where they are starting because of points situation.
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mattb3
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by mattb3 on Sept 3, 2010 13:22:25 GMT -5
From what I hear, there will be a Late Model at the Delmar (and maybe Georgetown) this week that has not been there for several years.
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Post by schaefferoilguy on Sept 3, 2010 20:28:37 GMT -5
Yeah Lou Johnson and the 96x are coming out of retirement!
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Post by ogbracin on Sept 7, 2010 11:34:54 GMT -5
I have a 2 part question for everyone? What's the average attendance at the race's? Asking for a number for pits and general admission. Then what do you think the track brings in each night it's open for speedway only? Roughly!!!!!!
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Post by sunny044 on Sept 7, 2010 19:12:53 GMT -5
ogbracin, Are you trying to put together a business plan in order to open your own facility? It might be a good idea if you go directly to proprietors of various tracks and do some research. From what I understand, it is quite an undertaking to balance attendance, car count, expenses (insurance very expensive, employees, chemicals for the track, track preparation expenses, advertising, ) payout, money for the end of the year awards, etc. On nights when you have special events, such as sprints, you have to guarantee money and if you do not have a large attendance, you will lose quite a lot of money. It would probably need to be a full time job for at least 3 - 5 employees. From what I understand, Mr. Cathell leaves for the track about 6 am every morning, works very long hours and works on the track surface daily. I believe his brother has a daily schedule as well. There are at least two other full time employees. It is very difficult to balance the money coming in and providing a good payout. Many tracks have gone broke quickly offering large purses without the money coming in pay for it. A few of the area drivers enjoyed going to Clary's in North Carolina to race because of the great purses, but they were not able to keep the track going with those kind of payouts. You might want to check with some of the management teams from these various tracks. In fact, it might be a good idea to talk directly to Mr. Cathell. I remember reading somewhere that he has received the award for promoter of the year on more than one occasion and is regarded by his peers of one of the most successul in the business. I have attended dirt track racing up and down the east coast and people from all over are very familiar with the track at Delmar and speak highly of the track surface and the facility. So, you might want to check right in your own backyard, assuming you are a local, to gather the best information on running a first class operation. I wish you the very best of luck and gathering your information.
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Post by ogbracin on Sept 8, 2010 6:57:24 GMT -5
Thank You for your input, but a simple number is what I was looking for!!!!!!!!!
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