8/10/07 Fact or Fiction

[jazzy]

Congratulations to Kart #48 in the Jr 1 rookie class for her win last night. It is such a disgrace to the sport to have such a good race screwed up by bad officiating. How much more obvious can it be? ...The whole race was lead by the #48 until the #18 and two other karts passed her on the front stretch after the #23 was knocked off the track. Then the caution for the #23 (who many people agree was pummeled off the track by the #18 to bring out the caution and should have either been black flagged or at least sent to the rear of the field )came out in turn 1 way before the lap was completed by the #18, and yet the #48 was not put back up front where she belonged even after the red flag came out and the race director was told about it. Fair is fair...Right is right...that race last night...WAS JUST WRONG. I protested the race but I doubt it will do any good...too much politics. I honestly don't know how you people sleep at night. I just wish we all could run by the same rules. I guess I shouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.

Mike McCane

[peewee]

Jazzy, I have no idea about the line-up because I was just watching but as I watched the races I'm very disappointed in the way the faster driver's just bang slower driver's out of the way when they are lapping them but even when they are trying to advance a position. It reminded me of the bumber cars you ride at amusement parks (except racing has serious risks involved). Kart racing and rough or unsportsmanlike driving must be changing because it seems ok with drivers, parent's, and crews when they do it (they say thats racing) but when it get's done to them it's not right. The parents of these young driver's should take the time to explain to them the do's and dont's of driving, racing, etc. The way they drive starts with the parents and crews!! Of coarse this is My opinion and is not directed towards you Jazzy but to everybody. But on a better note Jr3 & Briggs 330 were great races way to go guy's

PW

[jazzy]

Even when there are only 2 or 3 karts out there, i understand how hard it is to see everything all the time. Everyone on the track does the best that they can to get everything right and that's all anyone can ask. How much better would the Kart Club be if all the parents of the younger drivers stepped up and showed some integrity and set a good examples about racing "do's and don'ts"...but there are those parents who think "a win is a win...no matter HOW you get it. I feel sorry for the kids, because they are the future of this sport. I'd rather for Jazzy to run a good clean race and come in 5th then to beat and bang everyone out of the way just to win. It is really a shame when some race teams have all the best of everything and yet they still aren't satisfied. The reality is that most of us have no idea what a silver sthingy taste like. If that last comment offends you, then I must have struck a nerve...it's about time someone said something. Mike

[23momma]

First I would like to say congrats to the #48 for a beautiful win. YOU earned it. You raced the way I wish everyone did, clean and fair. The Peewee and rookie classes were developed for the new and young racers to learn. These classes are not supposed to be used as target practice. I do agree that we need one set of rules for EVERYONE. Fairness is an issue but so is safety. I would like to know how many injuries it is going to take for this to stop. I am truly sorry that some of these children are being sent on seek and destroy missions. That they are being taught to take out the weaker link at all cost. I am even more sorry for the adults that have so few morals that they are cheering when an innocent child is getting hurt for simply going too slow.

[mikewilson]

For those of you who think we are getting special treatment or we are on the right side of politics you arn't even close, and furthermore if you think we are teaching our kids to win a race at any costs then you all are dumber than a box of hair!!!If you are mad at a call on the track take it up to the officials, not by being on here blaming the kids or the parents. Do you all actually think we want our kids or any other kids do get hurt you dont even know who we are, you all have lost your minds you said all the kids are learning and thats what we are doing to. What does the best equipment have to do with anything we all work hard to have it regrdless of what you all think. There are no silver sthingys. You think that nobody on our team gets black flagged or put to the back, then you guys dont watch no racing. Quit screaming about the politics and orange shirts, that gets old cuz we have been hearing about it forever. I hope the # 23 is alright and he is back friday nite regardless of what you all think. 23 Momma nobody was cheering when your child got hurt, probaly from when we all knew your child was okay. You guys ought to check your morals before ours. Thank You i have to go to sleep know.

[jazzy]

Speaking of "being dumber than a box of hair..."sounds like you described yourself very well... 1.)I'm not "mad" about the call on the track...I'm "mad" because everything we "parents do or say around our "kids" influences them. I'm "mad" because right is right and wrong is wrong...on the track and in life. What kind of example are we as "parents" setting for these kids? [ Are we saying it's okay to push and shove and wreck your way to the front...?] How bad does it have to get or how hurt does someone have to get before we do the right thing and "teach" the younger racers what's right and what's wrong. That's what I'm "mad" about. Not to mention the fact that the Kart that was GIVEN the win is the same Kart who many people agree "Caused" the caution that should have put the #48 back up front. The #48 had lead every lap up until that point and the #18 didn't even complete half a lap after they passed the #48 and the caution came out. At that point the #48 should have gone back to the front. Furthermore...here's an idea...since the race was red flagged...why didn't the "parent" step up and go to the race official and TELL THE TRUTH..."That's what I'm "mad" about! If integrity was as important as winning we would all be better off. Funny thing about the truth...there is only 1 version of it. You should try it sometime. 2.) I really enjoyed your comment about "not being on here blaming the kids or the parents..." That statement proves my point. AS A PARENT IT IS YOUR FAULT. I never have blamed the kids..they only do what they are told....the kids only race how they are told...that's why the #48 never tried to wreck the #18...oh that's right...The #18 was given the signal to go low and block after she was given the lead...the TRUTH HURTS!!!

[jlm5]

Let me shed some light into this extremely "complex" blame game... As we all know the NUMBERS don't lie... looking back at Friday nights results i see where the two largest classes were JR animal and YEP you guessed it Jr. 1 rookie (the most unexperienced group of drivers out there) there were 12 entries in each of those respectable classes. Now a good spectator might say... "wait a minute, they didn't have that many cautions in the heats." If my cloudy memory serves me correctly they had two separate heats due to the same reasons stated above..... perhaps the answer to the better racing would be to take the top 5 or so karts of each heat and have a 12 lap feature.... let the drivers who are not yet up to speed have a 12 lap feature(12 laps because we don't need another 20 lap feature). This may provide a better experience for all involved... again this is only a suggestion and i really don't have anyone in mind to blame .... ;D

[23momma]

Thank You, He is going to be fine. If there is no special treatment why during a lineup didn't all the children get their face shields wiped clean? As far as being dumber than a box of hair I know what I saw and heard, well before my son was out of the kart and we knew he was OK. I never accused any certain group of the cheering. The 12 lap top 5 is a great idea or..... my idea is keep the rookie class just that, a class for the beginners and inexperienced. I am not mad but, simply concerned about the children's safety as I would expect any parent to be.

FYI : During the above mentioned lineup we had be trying to get him off the track due to a mechanical problem. Because we were not allowed out on the track this was not able to take place. To the gentleman that was yelling at the scoring tower to get #23 off the track ( apparently he was causing accidents ) just remember these are children and they are still learning. Not all of the track radios have headsets. Good sportsmanship is not learned unless it is taught.

[Falcon#13]

In case anyone hasn't noticed all of these problems stem from lack of interest( by the club) in the beginning stages of racing such as PEE WEE. I have been told on several occations that pee wee is a learning class....Well guess what they aren't learning anything by just letting them on the track with no organization. Where am i going with this...... JR1 rookie is just another pee wee class with 5hp motors. I f you dont teach these kids anything in peewee how do expect them to race any different in JR1 rookie. You have to start at the beginning of the line with peewees. Parents can only teach their kids so much, somewhere along the line the track officials have to take these peewees serious or it will not change. They will continue to beat and bang and not be able to have clean starts, right on up to jr1 rookie. Problem solved. Start at the root of problem. You dont just open te gate and throw te green when you still have karts on the grid. Dangerous and irresponsible by track officials. Bottom line, dont expect kids in jr1 rookie to not have any problems until you fix and work with the kids coming up from pw

[mikewilson]

Look Jazzy Fresh you were told on the track by her father the way he felt and you apologized dont act big on the computer because all it does is slow your 87 apple down. Number 18 was crying when he got out there because she had no where to go, does that sound like she meant to do it, no i guess not and nobody told her to block. If you really want to start something you cant finish then go ahead, you want to blame somebody blame yourself. You lifted your kids shield and told her to take the 18 out on the restart after the green flag, what a great dad you are. Now you gone and made it personal by sayn what you have said, my suggestion to you is if you want to go faster bring your day job to Friday nights and change our oil maybe you can keep up, hell you will more than likely learn something!!! Look dude we work 16 to 17 hours a day to be what we are on the track as you can see what time my post is, and look at your time you posted, you ought to get some overtime and catch up, cuz in 5 years when your done racing we will still be winning. And Jazzy by the way " DON"T HATE CONGRATULATE." By the way if you want to talk to me face to face i will more than happy to do so becasuse this is dumb to be even discussing this with you. Just ask for me. Hey Jamie good post man i will see Wed. nite.

[teamhps]

First of all 23mamma my daughter was very upset for what happened to your little boy. I was very concerned about the well being of your child also, but no one will give me that credit. You congratulate Jazzy when he never once showed concern for your little boy, instead he acts like he's younger then the kids running in the learning class. He is to busy telling his little girl to take my little girl out of the race, way to go super dad father figure. He also argued with me about an issue that should have been brought to the race officials. If anyone thinks orange will get away with anything than you have not been to the races this year or maybe you have selective vision. My daughter has been black flagged this year for spinning out to many times in one race. Guess what we talked about it during the week went back to the races the following week and learned more about racing, that's what a learning class is for to learn. I hope your little boy is ok and is ready to race this Friday. I do have a concern for your boys safety though concerning his seat sizing. I have been racing over 20 years and seat position and seat comfort is very important for a youngster to control the kart 100%. I have noticed that his arms sit inside of the seat like it is way the big for him. To me it looks like a adult med or lg., if so this is way to big for him and probably not allowing him to get up on the wheel like he should be. Maybe try a rookie seat, at tops a jr. seat. I bet this will help him in the comfort area of the kart to where he will have better control of the kart. Just a suggestion and if you want you can call me at the shop [phone] Tues. or Thurs. night ask for Chad. I will be more then happy to help you get headed in the right direction on driver comfort or set-up. We have these size's of seats right in stock & can be mounted for you. 23mamma don't judge me by other people's mouth, talk to me in person, I am not that bad of a person.

Jazzy, you set a real good example for your child last Friday night by telling her that if she caught the #18 to drive her off the track, way to go. Then you set examples for every other kid in the class by acting the way you did during the red flag when a kid was hurt and all you wanted to do was argue with me, the race director, and everyone at the fence, while everyone else was concerned for the child's wellbeing, way to go dad. Another thing is I work 14-16 hr days to get what I have and if I want the best of the best I'll get it, I work hard enough for it. You know nothing about me and until you do you don't have any credibility to what you say. I have worked very hard to get to where I am at, don't think that your comments will stop me. Over 20 yrs in the game and still going strong. I never tell my child to push and shove her way to the front, this could put her in danger as well as others, unlike you, I have heard you on more then one occasion this year tell your daughter, right at the scales fired up like a maniac, to crash or run over another child because they maybe got into your daughter a little. If your mad because what parents do or say then be mad at your self, your the one that shows your ass every time you get mad, & everyone saw that last Friday.


You can come back all you want as far as I'm concerned you will never see me post again. You are very childish, Jazzy, to even come on here and talk about other kids in the class and how they drive. Oh, check the results, congratulations kart #18 in the jr 1 rookie class for her win last Friday night & daddy wishes you many more to come in the future. Code Orange is in EFFECT!

[23momma]

Teamhps, Thank you for the seat info I will certainly look into it. I completely understand about working hard to get what you have. I am sorry that your daughter was upset. You can reassure her that no one is mad at her. I have an idea and may be way off but, what about drivers meetings? Is there anyway to take an extra 10 minutes with just the younger kids peewee/jr1 rookie? (I know it may seem repetative in jr1 rookie having to work with them a bit more but it is more power and takes time to get used to). This can be done to reinforce what the parents should be telling them and make sure they understand before they enter the track. Also make it manditory for a parent to be at the meeting with the children. I have seen a countless number of times where children will be over there by themselves and when you ask them what was said they can't remember half of it because they just weren't paying attention. If the parents are there they can reinforce what was said (this is a general statement and directed toward any one person or team). We started racing to have a good time not fuss, fight, and argue. To me it sounds like gang war, who is wearing what color shirt or running what name on a motor. Racing should not be this way. There have been several times when my son was racing I cheered for other children when they make a nice pass or take the checker. This how it should be, a good race is a good race no matter.

[kartdad0four]

a few thoughts of my own....
1.take chad up on the seat deal,comfort and confidence are the first steps to safety and speed
2.parents need to remember they are doing this for fun for their kids
3.dont blame track officials for your kid not knowing where the brake pedal is.
4.in jr1 and jr1 rookie there is going to be alot of kart to kart contact,get used to it,there kids remember...
5.take your kids to a track like mardela and just let them ride till they are tired after the races,they usually let karts out on the track after the races are over.fill er up n just let them do laps,it will do wonders for a youngster just to get seat time
6.no wonder its hard to get people to be officials with all the abuse that gets thrown at them every nite,remember the fun word again.
7.take responsibilty as a parent to make sure your youngster understands what is said at the drivers meetings,also that they know the flags and what they mean,
8.make sure the youngsters have the proper safety gear that fits correctly and is worn correctly,a too large helmet that comes off during a crash will be no good to the driver when he gets hit by another kart after the fact.
9.young kids have the tendancy to only drive a few feet out in front not really looking ahead as far as they should be,this only comes from learning,i.e.seat time.
10.let the kids go out and have some fun without parents putting to much pressure on them to win at all costs,
11.just some random thoughts after reading this post...not meant as a stab at anyone....just a dad that wants to see some smiles on some kids faces.
kd04

[modlite17]

mike savage i do agree with you this time, however i donot feel as though the track saftey official do enough to emphasize the saftey of the karts & saftey equipment worn. i donot know when the last time the helments were checked for the snell rating for friday nights.pre tech is mandatory on state races,however nothing is done for friday nights.chest protectors should be felt to see if worn before the child is permited to go on the track(this is not done).
2 weeks ago a child ran off of the track coming out of turn 4 and hit the straw bales the child's helmet came off, this could have been bad news.
i also agree mike that us13 is not a baby sitting service, the parent need to over see that the proper equipment is worn and also bought.however as we all have read sometime extra assistance is needed.

steve willey

[jazzy]

mikewilson said:

If you really want to start something you cant finish then go ahead, you want to blame somebody blame yourself. You lifted your kids shield and told her to take the 18 out on the restart after the green flag, what a great dad you are.
Look dude we work 16 to 17 hours a day to be what we are on the track as you can see what time my post is, and look at your time you posted, you ought to get some overtime and catch up, cuz in 5 years when your done racing we will still be winning.

This post is exactly what is expected from you. I named this post Fact or Fiction for a reason. Fact....your kart did not participate in the Track run -in
Fact...when #18 spun out in turns 1 & 2 during the feature, you ran out there and wiped mud off the face shield, which is against the rules. Fact...#18 did not complete a lap before the caution after she passed the leader but was still given the win. Fact...no matter how hard or long you work, the FACTS are the TRUTH and you apparently can't handle that. No matter what I told my kid on the track out of frustration from all the previous facts, she's a great racer and knows the right things to do on the track no matter what I say, because we talk about good sportsmanship and clean racing away from the track. She knows that there is a foot peddle on the left side. And if you think she doesn't know that she got "screwed" your sadly mistaken. How would you like to answer the question..."why didn't they put me back up front after the caution dad? We didn't complete a lap?" Friday nights outburst by me has been building all year. From your last minute "appearances" on the grid to adding fuel to your kart on the grid...YOU MUST BE BLIND OR JUST STUPID if you don't see anything "wrong" with you constantly breaking the rules. Your upset because someone has finally called you on it. You and I obviously disagree, and that's fine with me, but no one can say that the #48 drives rough or makes bad decisions on the track "rookie class" or not. In fact, you might learn something from her. As far as the times...maybe if I sell my 87 apple I can get tachometer. But I do have to agree with one thing you said...in 5 years you will still be given wins...if nothing changes.

[jazzy]

teamhps said:

First of all 23mamma my daughter was very upset for what happened to your little boy. I am not that bad of a person.

Blah..blah..blah....Don't talk to me about "not being concerned about the #23"...it was the #18 who knocked him off the track...The #23's mom said he was as high as he could be in turn 4 and the #18 still rammed him off the track! The #48 had just passed him before that with no problem, so I don't understand your comment. Well I have news for you. Everyone is concerned about the safety of ALL the kids out there. If you think I was "intense" during the red flag...you have no idea. You want to turn this into a personal assault on me, I'm okay with that. I would expect no less from you. But the reality is "When?"... When are we going to fix the Over-aggressive driving? AFTER someone get seriously injured...or will we fix it before. I believe my outburst got some attention and I think it's a good thing. So when? It's up to all of us to fix it. So you mean to tell me that the tape on the front of the #18's Kart wasn't all tore up after that race? I hate to break it to you, but that comes from ramming into the back of other Karts! I think the problem is you see nothing wrong with the contact....why would you, it's how you drive too. Since you want to try and make yourself "look better" by trying to badmouth me...I think I'll share a quote as well... remember when I said on the track that the #18 knocked the #23 off the track to cause the caution...You said "that wasn't her fault, besides...it's a "rookie" class." I guess that makes it okay then Chad....good answer. I'm glad you were so concerned about the #23.

[jlm5]

doesn't matter if they are 8 or 80..... women are always the cause of controversy....

if you vote for hillary our country will end up much like the thread... a disaster...lol.... just kidding ladies

[teamhps]

it's ok jazzy calm down

[kartdad0four]

jlm.....your s.o. must not visit the boards huh?

[jlm5]

[jhracing25]

Like I said on another thread if I had a dollar for all the people who pregnant doges and moans about H.P. Speed I would have a second to none karting outfit Keep runnin up front Chad I was at DMP Wed. night and Ashley looked great I think it's awesome when these cute little girls race karts I have an 8 yr old wish we could do it but she would most likely forget about the break pedal, no body ever likes the person or people who is on top.