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Post by ryder64 on Aug 30, 2009 17:38:36 GMT -5
Yes, he was caught cheating.He had a 10 inch wheel on his car the rules are 8. In May we had a meeting, at that meeting our directors said anyone who got caught cheating would be disqualified.I race in the class and all the drivers wonder why he was not disqualified.I talked to several drivers and they are very upset over the situation. He should of been disqualified. I still have respect for Bill because he is a hell of a driver and nice guy but rules are rules.
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Post by rocket99 on Aug 30, 2009 18:42:59 GMT -5
Rules are rules, but a 10' wheel (yes 10", not 10 and 1/2') is not a performance advantage. Go check any other car in the division and I guarantee that they have 10 wheels as well. For you to assume this guy has cheated for the entire time hes been racing is absurd.
Sounds to me like this is just a cheap shot that all the guys that can't keep up or work as hard as that team has finally found to take.
Tech in that class is a joke anyway. Tech out half those cars and you will find alot more than a 10' wheel
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Post by mamakin764 on Aug 30, 2009 19:08:46 GMT -5
IF it wasnt a perfomance advantage ,then why run it ?why why why? that statement was absurd
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Post by llvintageracer on Aug 30, 2009 21:47:13 GMT -5
Things that make you go..................Hmmmmmmmm!!
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Post by stinkytoe2 on Aug 31, 2009 10:33:15 GMT -5
I agree Bill and they guys work vey hard on their car. However 10in. wheels are not 8in. wheels that are required by the rules. A 2 in wider wheel will allow more of the tire to contact the racing surface. (DON'T SEE DRAGSTERS RUNNIN NARROW WHEELS).... Why to create a larger contact patch, which equals better grip... Which equals performance enhancement. Maybe 2in. is not an ungodly enhancement but an enhancement none the less. This is not a "Cheap Shot" as some would like to suggest. Rules are rules they should be followed and enforced.
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Post by oldschool on Aug 31, 2009 14:26:42 GMT -5
Is tech or inspection on this class that lax that you could expect to get away with oversized tires or rims? I don't know the driver or wish to comment on him personally, it just appears if you have an 8 inch rim or tire rule that it wouldn't be that difficult to police. And heck yes a 2 inch wider tire will help you if everyone else is running on 8's. I am assuming if you are going to run one 10 incher you would run three if not all four. It won't improve a piece of junk enough to win but when you have close competition any little bit helps and its probably worth several car lengths over the course of a race.
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Post by dedirtfan on Aug 31, 2009 18:30:47 GMT -5
I heard that the 10' was on the left rear and the other 3 rims passed inspection. Wouldn't you want the larger tire patch on the right to hook up off the corner?
Also, have any other cars been checked for the same thing? The 49 and 3 are pretty sporty too and sitting in the stands the 4 49 and 3 all look pretty equal every race. 4 usually doesn't get to the front until after lap 6 or 7. And is it true that the leader of the class owns the 49? Those are all questions to make you go hmmmm
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Post by One Star on Aug 31, 2009 18:50:28 GMT -5
I have been watching this class since they have started and visit with a lot of the driver's in this class and Brittingham is one of the nicest guys and one of the cleaniest racer's around. So, you want to talk about pretech, there is NONE! Pre tech is a joke in this class! I have seen when Brittingham has won races, and everyone comes to his car after right away. With everyone else that l have seen, they just check a couple things and that is it. With Brittingham, it is like he has a bullseye on his car, no matter what they are going to pick it apart. Ever since Duke and Tony quit the club, it seems like the rules get changed often. A 2 inch tire difference is not a speed enhancer. I have seen the crew Brittingham has, and they are 110% behind their driver. They have dedication and I have not seen another car in that class with that kind of crew. To me, they just have their nuts together and know what they need to get a good finish. At the length his car got teched Saturday night, they need to put the energy in and tech all them cars at that length! I know that they would find A LOT more then a 10 inch tire on most of them cars!
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Post by One Star on Aug 31, 2009 18:57:46 GMT -5
Dedirtfan...you are RIGHT ON! I heard that Greg is the owner of the 49 also, and it seems that the rules get changed to help the 49 car get points because I heard Brittingham is in the lead for points in his class and Greg wants his car to win....things that make you go hmmmmmm....!
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Post by icon20shi on Aug 31, 2009 20:43:20 GMT -5
i race in this class and its a blast im finally getting it figured out with some new help from one of the best engine builders on the eastern shore -- D.T.M motorsports and a new set up man we got it working fairly well .. i enjoy racing with little mel and jamey . and britt these guys have raced me clean everytime i did manage to get up there with them guys jamey is a little ruff on the back bumpers under caution but he races me clean under green so far these cars are built to the limit and is a very competitive class shock , gregg and greyhound are doing as good of job as they can i think but i takes time to work the bugs out ... hopefully ill be up front with them guys on the 18th .. good luck to all racing .....
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Post by mamakin764 on Sept 1, 2009 8:47:56 GMT -5
BOTTOM LINE BILL AND HIS CREW KNOW 10"WHEELS ARE ILLEGAL,"AND PERFORMANCE ENHANCING"ANYONE WHO STATES OTHERWISE IS PART OF THIS WRONGDOING OR JUST THAT DANG STUPID!
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Post by car collector on Sept 1, 2009 9:14:02 GMT -5
I too was at the races Saturday night, and after LL class finished, I was curious to watch them tech the #4 car. I stood back and watched them tear down his car for 36 min. He passed all inspections except at the last minute, they found a 2 inch tire difference. Never have I seen a inspection take this long on anyone else's car in this class. Usually, a quick glance under the hoods and they send you on your way. It must have made them feel (Dave and Shockley) all warm and fuzzy inside to have finally caught the #4 car cheating. But, isn't that what racing is about keeping little secrets. You can't tell me that nobody else out there has a little secret. This is to the #4 car, I hope that the next time someone else wins, that they go through the 36 min. tech that you did! Keep your head up and peddle down to win your next championship!
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Post by oldschool on Sept 1, 2009 9:18:41 GMT -5
Yeah even the most novice beginner and anyone that read the rules and seen there is a wheel or tire limit would know to check their width. How much of an advantage is it, thats not the point. Its a clear rule and easy to check by driver or tech. Sounds like a fun club but a lot of fun is lost if several drivers are getting away with breaking rules and you are being honest. Not sure how or who techs them but any class needs tech to keep things honest and to have fair competition. And I say that having not passed tech at times when I raced. As I driver you don't like getting teched but certainly want the other guys gone over good.... LOL
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Post by Bud Man on Sept 1, 2009 9:19:17 GMT -5
Isn't it a conflict of interest being a director and car owner?? How can they subject the 4 car to such scrutiny and not ANY others?
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Post by countryboy on Sept 1, 2009 9:25:06 GMT -5
Remember guys..the pits have eyes and ears! Going back to my car sat. night l heard a group of guys trashing the 4 car! When I looked over, familiar faces of Mitchell, Dave, and Shockley were celebrating with more then a few beers. I heard Shockley tell them that HE was going to tighten the points lead. SO, where does the #4 car stand in points from the rest of the field? And, was any penalties handed down with this 2inch tire deal? Shame on the tech guys people are suppose to look up to you, but now I have lost respect for you IDIOTS!
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Post by Car Collector on Sept 1, 2009 9:31:35 GMT -5
Mamakin....yeah, it was illegal and he knew it but is everyone else in that class on the up and up??? NO! That 2 inch difference DID NOT give the #4 car speed! If so, why did they all keep up with him? It seems to me, that the #4 car is consistent and doesn't have to win to get another championship. Ain't jealously FUN!
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Post by oldschool on Sept 1, 2009 9:57:22 GMT -5
First, two inches doesn't add speed ? Why do they have a tire or wheel limit then ? I suspect every car out there would have wider tires and rims the next race if they were allowed. Motor power isn't the only factor that creates speed. Handling and grip do also. And these type classes restrict tire and wheel width to keep the money guys from cheating their motors up. With wheel/tire restrictions it makes the extra power difficult or impossible to hook up.
Second, if other guys are breaking rules they need to be checked too. Tech shouldn't be a weapon against certain drivers. It needs to be consistant and fair.
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Post by mamakin764 on Sept 1, 2009 15:10:02 GMT -5
Posted by Car Collector on Today at 9:31am Mamakin....yeah, it was illegal and he knew it but is everyone else in that class on the up and up??? NO! That 2 inch difference DID NOT give the #4 car speed! If so, why did they all keep up with him? It seems to me, that the #4 car is consistent and doesn't have to win to get another championship. Ain't jealously FUN! THEN WHY WAS IT ON THE CAR ? ? JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK OTHERS ARE DOING SOMETHING DONT MEAN YOU CAN !AS FAR AS CHAMPIONSHIP GOES THEY MIGHT AS WELL GIVE IT TO HIM AT THE NEXT RACE "AND IT WILL BE A GIFT IF NO PENALTY FOR GETTING CAUGHT CHEATING IS GIVEN" AS FAR AS JEALOUSY,HA HA I GOT A BUNCH OF TEN INCH RIMS
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Post by The facts on Sept 1, 2009 16:16:04 GMT -5
To dedirtfan,onestar,carcollector,Budman here is the truth and facts.If you have visited so many guys in the pits then you should of seen pre-tech.Everybody that is in the class will tell you that the carbureators,motorseals,and valvecovers have been pulled and checked at the track.They will also tell you that the directors have been under every car to check for aluminum dryshafts,aluminum flywheels,and transmissions for working gears.And the inspection the other night did not take any longer than any other winner in the class.And the only ones over there were Kevin Shockley and Dave Fleming with the 4 pit crew.All other winners were teched and were LEGAL according to the rulebook.He got caught cheating according to the rulebook so quit your crying.And if it would not help the performance of the car why put it on the car.And to cry and say their picking on me is ridicolous.Greg Mitchell is a director and car owner and was told on a Thursday night he could not run Saturday if Oscar has not sealed his motor because he had motor trouble the race before.The directors now have been inspecting the cars the best it has been and the fairest in many years.Don't cheat and there will be no discussion!!!!!!!!Here are the facts and the truth.P.S.Alex Rodriguez took performance enhancing steroids he did not think it would help him either!!!!!!!
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ll7
Junior Member
Posts: 6
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Post by ll7 on Sept 1, 2009 18:11:08 GMT -5
THE 64 CAR OF DUCK WAS ALSO 10 POUNDS LIGHT AT THE SCALES AFTER THE RACE AND HE WAS NOT DISQUALIFIED EITHER WHY WAS THAT, DIRECTORS
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Post by donald robinson on Sept 1, 2009 18:28:17 GMT -5
for your information tony daisey you big crybaby i finished 7th the other night so i did not go to the scales and yes 3 years ago i was 10 pounds light you were the director and i got disqualified and my points taken away.so know your facts before you come on here talking crap see u at the track crybaby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's right you do not race anymore!!!!
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Post by dedirtfan on Sept 1, 2009 19:02:56 GMT -5
First of all, I have read these boards a long time and have always thought there are several disrespectful people who post. So mamakin, we all have our opinions, but don't tear other apart for what they think.
Furthermore, the wheel was ILLEGAL. No question. But to assume the 2 inches are what has won races and championships over the years is crazy. Say what you will, but that should have never been on the track. Proper pre race inspection of each and every car would have prevented it. If the 4 is so superior, why doesn't it win every race? Why does the 49 and 3 run so close with him? Now that the 0 is running up front is he cheating?
It is still funny that the 4 was inspected post race for 40 minutes. That has NEVER happened before or again. Where did Brittingham paint that bullseye? Oh thats right, it got earned for dominating the class. Bottom line, you can have the most cheated up car around and if you're not talented enough to wheel it you run in the back. With the slightest advantage that 2' gave him he should have won no issue. Too bad Mel had problems or maybe he would have got scrutinized for 40 minutes. What would they have found on the 49 since the head of the class owns it? Sounds to me like the powers that be in this class are ass backwards. Do you see Brian France owning a car in Sprint Cup? How about Tony George in the IRL. He owned a team and his board of Directors voted him out of power because of the conflict of interest. Again, just my opinions. And Donald, way to stick up for yourself. I'm sorry for you and Britt. None of the posters on here ever make mistakes. Sorry you 2 aren't perfect.
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Post by mamakin764 on Sept 1, 2009 19:35:48 GMT -5
I never said people cant have their own opinion (even if they are WRONG) .I said if you don't think it was an advantage,why run it,WHY?WHY?WHY? IT IS AN ADVANTAGE PERIOD .Even if it wasn't an advantage ;)it is a rule .I realize he probably don't run it every week,but he did this week.I don't know him that well but,he is a wheelman/racer. I'm sure he'll be joking about it and man up and move on!I suggest we do the same, no hard feelings here,it sounds as if it has been settled.
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Post by brasure on Sept 1, 2009 20:01:49 GMT -5
i drive the number 0 bryan brasure i got in this class because i love these cars and always wanted one i used to love to watch bill and little mel .. and even donald these guys are great drivers and these cars are to the max and yes mine is almost to that point but ive had to do all this work and spend a ton of money to keep up with these guys my car is legal we ran a bone stock carb for half the yr until we got a new engine tuner now we are figurring it out a little at a time 92% of these guys are really great people and try there hardest to run good but its hard to do good in this class without haveing the experience these veterans got but im having a great time running with them its definatley a great club .. me and my family enjoy it .. and hopefully everyone can get over this and lets get racing .. i was one of the guys with the adjustable blocks on my rear .. but it is not in the rules it says no leaf spring sliders not adjustable blocks ....no where in the rules does it say that .. read it ... its a gray area .. but i guess i got to change it now
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Post by mamakin764 on Sept 1, 2009 22:42:16 GMT -5
GOTTA LOVE THAT GREY AREA
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Post by bigteninch on Sept 1, 2009 23:41:04 GMT -5
1. Must have steel spoke wagon wheels or approved reinforced wheels. Max. 8" wide No aluminum or mag wheels. No bead locks allowed.
4. Spring shackles must be stock and non-adjustable. No slider on rear leaf springs. Lowering blocks allowed.
The above is out of the rule book, it says max 8" wheel, period. However, it does not say you cannot have an adjustable lowering block, so, the way I see it, if you are using them, your within the rule structure.
Oscar took it upon himself to check the cars for these blocks, it's not his job to check the cars for infractions, he overstepped his boundries, without reading the rule first. His job is engine tech only and might I add, thats in his own words at the last meeting, when he up and stormed out of the room like a child. It is up to Greg, Dave and Shock to deal with all the other rules infractions in this class.
You guys with adjustable blocks are within the rules, leave em in.
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Post by bubba9llvsc on Sept 8, 2009 14:02:14 GMT -5
In the begining of the year drivers were told after 3 wins for a car, that car would be teched more in depth. I don't feel it was a matter of anybody "out to get him" in a sense. The directors just did what they said they were gonna do. The club has been self supporting since the beginning relying on volunteers and people donating their time to tech cars and make sure the rules are followed. I'm not sure if the ones saying tech is a joke ect.. are affiliated with a car or not, but how about donating your time to help with the club. It will be much more effective than posting on this board complaing about it. This class was started to HAVE FUN remember .
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Post by stinkytoe2 on Sept 8, 2009 14:10:36 GMT -5
Did i hear correctly the 4 car was given last place points? just wondering.
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Post by shock on Sept 9, 2009 15:10:36 GMT -5
Hello, this is Kevin Shockley. one of the directors of the Little Lincoln stock car club. Recently there have been some comments on here that have misinformed the fans, racers and families of our class. Greg, Dave, Oscar and myself try to run the club to be as fair as we can to everybody. Duke still offers his opinion sometimes on matters as do others. We donate our time to help keep this class running. There is countless hours spent away from the track that people do not see. There is constructive and destructive criticism. Nobody wants to be called a Idiot, Clown or Hypocrite. Everyone knows you can not please everybody, and everybody has there own opinion. As far as one post goes, Greg and Dave do not even drink. And what i said was " if you really want me to tighten the points and racing up, lets put a 2 inch air cleaner element with a metal top and bottom on the cars. That would slow em ( the cars ) down and tighten em up". Other racers and crew members were there when this statement was made. Greg and Dave were not even at my pit at the same time last race. That whole post was just trying to stir the poop pot. So please guys do not mix words and statements to make it sound like something its not. Rules are not changed to benafit a certain driver or owner. Rules are voted on by the club. Owner or Driver. Majority rules. we have a meeting every offseason to go over and dicuss rules. In our rules it states any interpretation or deviation of these rules is left to the discretion of the officials. Their decision is final. Last 2 sentences in our rule book. We are here to try and keep the gray areas as light as possible. The darker the gray area the more the rule needs to be addressed. Keep in mind that its the drivers who come to us most of the time with the gray areas in question. The adjustable lowering block was deemed illegal buy Oscar and the 3 directors agree. This will elliminate any more confusion. Check list will be made up for saftey and rule inspections, maybe this will help us be more effective in proper inspections. It does get hectic on us sometimes with our meeting, hot laps and feature being so early. There has been times when we thought the pits was to muddy to jack a car up. I know this just sounds like a excuse, but we really do have the racer in mind. I know i probably opened myself up to get reemed and drug thru the mud. Remember what you say reflects on the whole Little Lincoln club. Somebody thinking of joining our club who reads these post, just think what their thinking. Our goal is to try to get as many cars as we can to start every race and have some FUN.
P.S. if you have some ideas as far as tech or inspection post em. Maybe they will help.
thanks kevin
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Post by donald robinson on Sept 11, 2009 17:20:20 GMT -5
I love this class to bigdon.You are bashing the whole class when u tell people not to get in the little lincoln club.It is one of the best classes out there.The officials we have are doing a good job.I and everybody in the class has been checked for seals,carbureators,transmissions dryshafts,and flywheels.One person got caught cheating and now you want to come on here and cry.Everybody knows who is doing the crying and it is a shame because they are a top notch team.The rules are fair for everybody.No rules have been changed for anybody.At the begining of the season 2 rules were changed any steel flywheel and floater rears.It was voted on by the entire club and passed.There have been 4 winners out of 8 races.And the 14a 0 69 almost had wins so the rules look pretty fair.Bill got docked 22 points and still got to keep the win that was pretty fair decision.Bill also took the penalty like the champion he is so everybody else should follow in his footsteps and lets go out September 19 and put on another good race for the fans.They the fans will tell u that the little lincoln races are the best of the night.And about the rule on adjustable blocks i know 4 or 5 cars have them it don't bother me i don't have them.But as a club we need to vote on them at the winter meeting.We should all put it to rest and go have fun next saturday nite.
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