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Post by l8modelmaninmodlan on Aug 26, 2009 11:56:16 GMT -5
How can DIS or any track have a tire rule and not enforce it? DIS should just have open tires. Lucas Oil just caught 2 guys treating tires, but they have to be tested in lab to be sure. Do you honestly think any tire has ever been tested at DIS? If you aren't gonna enforce the rules why have them? If you see a guy running 1/2 a second faster than everyone else and winning often, at least test his tires. The only reason I can see for a track tire is Cathell getting a piece of the tire sales. We know that nothing is getting checked and it isn't saving the little man any money when people are cheating. How much do you think it cost for an illegal or treated tire? In this day and time how hard is it to get an illegal tire with fake stamp? Just think of all the technology there is today. I am not talking about putting tire prep on tire. I am talking about buying an illegal FAKE DIS tire or having it altered before you get it. It would be cheaper just to open tire rule. I feel any rule they aren't going to check up on should be out. If it is too expensive for track to police the rule then get rid of it.
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Post by cratedriver on Aug 26, 2009 15:23:20 GMT -5
OK, Heres the story. First, By having guys run a "track" tire you pretty much keep them running at your track every week as most tracks around here require track stamped tires. Most of us cant afford tires for BPort, NES etc. Second It definately does save the little guy money as the teams with deeper pockets would have several different compounds and chose from them according on how track conditions are on a given night. With a track tire and set compound it takes that part out of the equation. And sure Charlie gets a cut of the tire take. Hes there to make money not provide a public service!
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Post by l8modelmaninmodlan on Aug 26, 2009 16:27:29 GMT -5
I am saying how does it save money for the little guy when the big guy is running illegal tires? Tires that are chemically treated or have DIS stamp, but aren't the compound it says it is. This is happening and some of our HERO'S are doing it. I would guess you would pay alot more for a fake then if the tire rule was open. Now the little man is running track tires and the money man is running any tire he wants. You have to have the tire sent to a lab. Every once in a while, take a tire (from a dominant car) and have it lab tested. I know Cathell won't test the tires, so drop the rule. If you can't financially or physically enforce a rule than get rid of it. Then we have traction control, why would anyone use it to win at DIS and feel good about winning?
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Post by crazyness on Aug 26, 2009 18:38:07 GMT -5
if you opened up the tire rule maybe our locals would have a lot better chance being competitive at other tracks also. if your used to one tire only its hard to travel and get used to different compunds and their affects on car setup
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Post by leftturn on Aug 26, 2009 20:02:26 GMT -5
l8modelmaninmodlan you talk like you know something or think you do. As far as treated tires i dont think there would be a car in the field if they tested the tires. As far as open tire rule, WOW you have to be kidding me the amount of tires a team would have to have would pass the cost of a new motor. The teams would have to bring another hauler just for tires. One set for hot laps , another for heat race and another for the feature and that is just what goes on the car for the night not counting the 6 more sets of different compounds that they juice up with chemicals and dont even use cause track conditions are not right that night. Now that will be alot cheaper NOT. as far as a dis cheater tire it would be hard to get the tire company to make them i would think. I know tire companys make cheater tires but not track stamped ones.
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Post by l8modelmaninmodlan on Aug 26, 2009 23:27:37 GMT -5
I do know something, but I am keeping it to myself. Why would you need all these tires, when you can have one softer set and one harder set with DIS stamp? Having a softer and harder tire to choose from is a huge advantage. Tires are made with fake track stamps and that is fact. I don't know how, is it tire manufactures or just distributors? I think if you have a rule and don't police it, what is it worth? Just go to open tires. The track pretty much is the same, super heavy or a little slicker when BB run first. You don't need 100 different compounds at DIS. I remember no tire rule at DIS and no one had 100 tires. I would say even WoO guys don't carry that many tires, thats ridiculous. Do you really think DIS guys would have different tires for hot laps, heat and feature? Why don't we just go to crate motors, so we could save money? Because that isn't a real Super Late Model and track tires are not a Super Late Model. You have guys spending $30,000 or more on motors, so let them run real tires. Leave track tires to crates. Picking the right tire is one of the biggest parts of the game and different track conditions too. The track should be left alone when it isn't rough and let the guys learn slick track set up and driving. I have seen some of the best racing when track is slick. You work and work a guy till he makes a mistake, not blow by him with horsepower. If you want to save money and can't afford this then run a crate, if not run BB or LM. I wonder how many guys we used to get once in a while would come, if the tire rule was gone? Deese, Cross, Dorsey, etc.. We are not going to get LM car counts until we pay a decent purse and get rid of tire rule. The same with BB, 467ci and you would see more visitors. Guys aren't going to buy a track tire to race 2 or 3 times or run a 467 BB against huge BB. The BB motor rule is what is keeping us from getting a DIRT race. DIS is the only place in the country (that I am aware of) to pay BB more than LM and consider LM a support class to BB. 16 cars in LM and BB last race.........You think open tire is gonna hurt the field? I wouldn't even put a LM on the track for what Cathell is paying weekly and his points fund. The guys at DIS don't run cheater tires? How would we know if they haven't been checked....EVER! While I am on a roll. I went to a WoO race at Hagerstown the other night and they ran a pure stock race first. Guess what? The guy who won got a trophy bigger than Cathell gives his track Champ and went to Victory Lane for 15 minutes. No one seemed upset when he was interviewed and got pics with crew and fans. I came to see a LM race, but I sure won't deny the man a chance to celebrate and have a pic taken. Well, I guess I don't deserve to have an opinion, because I refuse to go to DIS if Cathell is running the show. I would have enjoyed seeing Eddie PJ win, for maybe the last time. I guess with no Victory Lane it takes half the fun out of winning anyway.
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Post by leftturn on Aug 27, 2009 8:34:55 GMT -5
Well what ever you know isnt on a lm or not the top 3 in lm. Its not a stamp on the tires it is raised letters on the side wall of the tires. Charlie cuts the track at intermission so we can watch a good show during the features. There have been a couple races on a dry track that have been ok but for the most part it is a one groove track and that sucks. Charlie is not there to make the track like others so our local drivers can learn setups that would help them on other tracks. That would be shooting him self in the foot dont you think. Help them learn different setups so they will go somewhere else and race that would be real smart. I think he is doing a good job we do have local racing dont we that has to count for something. As far as the amount of tires Matt Hubbard took a tractor trailer FULL of tires to east bay and that was for 5 nights of racing. As far as trophy's go i was at the go cart track the other night and they gave out a 6' trophy , Charlie has his ways as does any other track live with it or dont go. l8modelmaninmodlan i think you are way off on the tire deal, It will hurt the little guy and only help the big what fun would that be watching 2 guys check out every week not on there talent but on how big there wallet is.
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Post by l8modelmaninmodlan on Aug 27, 2009 11:06:08 GMT -5
What do you think your watching now. Mills, Bunting and Jarvis are the class of the field every week. You have 3 cars in two classes. Can it get worse? I guess the problem I have with Cathell is that I've been to other tracks and see how fans/drivers should be treated. I want local racing as much as the next guy, but I want it done half way right. It's like having a husband that abuses his wife and the wife says, "Well at least I have a husband". The point is local racing has gotten so bad I refuse to go to see it. It's not just the competition, it is all the things I have talked about that are wrong. The lap stealing, no Victory lane, favoritism, rules never being the same way twice, rule enforcement etc.. I wouldn't say anything I am not 100% sure is fact. I found it hard to fathom too. A guy would cheat to win DIS when he already has good stuff and experience. That makes no sense to me, but it is happening. Cathell knows what he is doing is wrong, but who can stop him? Cathell is a brilliant man. He has come up with great ideas, such as Delaware Restart and brought WoO to DE finally. Do you think in this age of technology someone couldn't make a tire with "raised letters" on the sidewall. I mean people are making fake credit cards and currency. How do we know if the top 3 do or don't have fake tires if we never take them to the lab? You are missing the point, if a few are not running the track tire then they have a bigger advantage then if we had open tire rule. You can't have a rule you don't enforce. I would be ok with track tire, if everyone had the same tire. I know this rule would be costly to enforce, so if you aren't going to check for violations do away with rule. I don't know how many tires Hubbard took to East Bay, although I usually go every year. If he took a trailer full that was overkill, because Bloomquist/ Moyer don't have a trailer full. Maybe, Hubbard's inexperience traveling at the time caused them to do this. Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy tires at the track or have them UPS's instead of taking a tractor trailer to Tampa? Also, East Bay is 6 nights and Voulisia comes right after that.
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Post by leftturn on Aug 27, 2009 12:10:09 GMT -5
They only went to run east bay. There is a big difference in a credit card and a track tire. Get over it they are running track tires. You are getting things started at a track that you dont go to anymore. When you get proof then talk. The reason those 3 are running up front is they wash there car with Teflon coated soap two times a week then they use a super slick spray on wax. ( can be bought from snookies) and Jarvis still has that big magnet in front of his car that helps pull him around the track.
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Post by leftturn on Aug 27, 2009 12:48:45 GMT -5
l8modelmaninmdlan no disrespect to Eddie just to you he started 1 finished 1 13 26 13 10 22 15 10 9 Dont look like domination to me more like luck. Same 5 races for King started 6 finished 8 11 17 3 2 10 8 15 10 I need not say more the numbers speak for themselves. is this enough for you or should i show you the finishes for Jarvis lingo davis and robison . i didnt think so GOOD DAY
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Post by hotdam on Aug 27, 2009 12:57:31 GMT -5
-i done seen the "truth!"- last night up in the sky there was a ufo that dropped packages to mills, bunting, and jarvis's shops that said american racer dis tires on them. -by the way how many times is the crybaby l8modelboyinmodlan gonna come on here and right paragraphs about how he isn't coming back to delmar or this persons cheating cause he is beating someone who he likes? who really cares about ur opinion since you dont even bother to go to the track, no ones missing you! Guarantee Charlies not gonna be calling you asking you to please come.
A little advice for ya-Why don't you move out of your mother's basement and with all ur free time instead of coming on here crying away, actually start helping one of these driver's you like to blast and maybe then you will see how they are able to run good consistently. Although as much as you act like you know what you are talking about, if you started setting up one of there cars they would lap the whole field everynight! -
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Post by leftturn on Aug 27, 2009 17:49:21 GMT -5
Thank You hotdam
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Post by l8modelmaninmodlan on Aug 27, 2009 20:49:58 GMT -5
Hotdam, sure your name isn't Hotdumb? Learn the difference between right and write! Just because I can write a whole sentence by myself don't be mad. Why does every idiot on here have to start with name calling instead of voicing a different opinion?I can do that too. I guess it may have sounded like I was saying Mills, Jarvis and Bunting are running illegal tires because they are the class of the field. I don't want anyone to take it that way, if thats the way they took it. I live in my own house and pay my own bills. I don't live off my daddy or get my money from him, like you. I said I would have like to seen ED win. Lets see if you can start on the pole and win at 63. I didn't say dominant or do you need help with the big words? Also, I never said who was using illegal tires, but if your willing to admit it thats up to you. I come on here to debate certain things and hopefully discuss it with other fans., I am not bashing any drivers. Maybe you be better suited for the worst 8 driver's post. It takes a little less thought. I try posting things that matter, not bash anyone. If your such a man use your real name, so I can judge you. You know mine. My favorite was KP and I will compare his career to anyone at DIS. You listed exactly what I was saying: Jarvis, Mills and Bunting. The three cars that win at DIS. If I didn't have to work for a living, like you I might have time to help. Guess what? I and many others actually get out of bed in the morning and go to a place called work. Why don't you give it a try? I will even give you your usual 1:00pm wake up call, so you don't oversleep. The reason I write is I care about local racing. I know that is hard for you to understand that I refuse to be robbed at a race. The day is coming when Charlie sells you out and you have to go back to running in the back at your old track. I have stated no accused no drivers here and will not. I am just saying open the tire rule. I talked to a guy today (not from DIS) that told me you can have any tire, with any track stamp, tread pattern or number on it. The problem being it cost more to have the fake made than the actual tire cost itself. So we are saving money on tires? I blame no driver for running the tires. It is kinda like a racing code that you bend the rules. I like and respect Jarvis, Davis, Hill, Bunting, Jester Lingo, etc.. I would have gave my right arm to do what they have done. I blame DIS for not enforcing the rule. The only person I have bashed on here is Cathell and how he treats fans/drivers. Just because a person chooses not to go to NASCAR races doesn't say that he isn't a fan. He may not be happy with the direction of the sport and long for the old days. Just because I have the guts to say how I feel doesn't make me anti-local racer. If I remember correctly your one of the many who said they would never run at DIS again and here you are again. At least I will stand by my word. I think I will just start E-Mailing Racarchaser and the other 3 guys on here that know racing. It is impossible to educate an ignorant person. Now does that make you feel better? I made a personal attacks.
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Post by l8modelmaninmodlan on Aug 27, 2009 20:55:47 GMT -5
Funny how Hotdumb just registered today and will make a few post then change his name again. Wonder if the guy who doesn't agree with you makes all these names up? NO, that couldn't be.
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Post by hotdam on Aug 27, 2009 21:37:11 GMT -5
jealous?
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Post by Racerchaser on Aug 27, 2009 22:32:13 GMT -5
Rob you might as well give up on this one. You and I know what goes on, all it takes is a good nose and a pair of eyes. LOLMS carry about 30 tires same for the WoO and I know for a fact,just because it say it is a d 30 or a d 40 I can guarantee you no 2 tires will push the same. You can "prep from inside out or from the outside in, makes no differences As far as a stamped tire goes what compound do you want it to and what track do want stamped on it, AND HOW MANY DO WANT.
=================================================== wonder WHY these guys down here at the end of the season for the Champ show, get their A$$ HANDLE to them every year
==================================================== A lot of teams have a hot iron to stamp tires with. d**n we had 1 10 years ago
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Post by leftturn on Aug 28, 2009 8:07:23 GMT -5
racerchaser you talk like someone with a paper ass. We all know there is not a car out there with out prep of some sort. We all know Hoosier and american both make a cheater tire ( your boy ricky knows real well) But to say you can buy a cheater track tire come on get real they are not racing for 10,000 to win the price of that tire would be out of this world. You know so much its not a stamp jacka$$. I will bet you money you cant get a cheater track tire. Also go ask Snookie what tires the boys are running he is selling them to them. As far as the champ show goes its all what you have in your tires and tire selection. Go to where it all starts at and look at all the different chemicals for different track conditions( gokarts)
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Post by leftturn on Aug 28, 2009 8:22:27 GMT -5
Sorry l8modelmaninmodlan i left you out. Read your post real good you implied that those guys had cheater tires not once but a couple times. You and chaser need to get a life and leave these drivers alone. So what if someone comes on here and uses a different name how many guest come on here and bash people. You talk like you know who hotdam is so what does it matter. By the way your mommy said breakfast is done.
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Post by lucky13 on Aug 28, 2009 11:44:42 GMT -5
No matter what rules are set, there will always be those who try to find the grey areas. Some may even venture beyond that grey area into what some may call cheating. This has been going on since rules were made. Look at the "greats" such as Smokey Yunick and the Petty's, Junior Johnson.. they all found ways to circumvent the System to enhance performance. So what?!
Do not take this as a post that "it's ok to cheat".. I am just saying that some people push the envelope no matter what budget they are on to go faster. You get your wrist slapped, you don't do it again. Look at all the infractions at Daytona every year.
As far as tires go, I have never raced anything with substantial horsepower. I raced karts at Delmar last year and the year before that , I was a rookie at 29 years old. We had a very limited budget BOTH years. Hauled my kart in the back of a pickup truck. By the end of my rookie year, we were running top three most weeks and I had a few weeks I finished in 2nd place. Not bad for having ONE SET of tires the entire year. My sophomore year, I consistently ran in the front half of the pack, won a race (woulda been two if I wasnt taken out on the white flag lap) with TWO sets of tires the entire season. I was racing against people that had thousands of dollars worth of tires. Different compounds, preps, sizes, and what not. I bet it really got underneath some folk's skin when a poor son-of-a-gun like myself unloaded from the back of a pickup truck and was competitive with the best of them. With TOTALLY to the "T" legal stuff. Used motor. Used kart.
You may say "well, that's just go karts, we are talking about REAL racing here".. that may be a valid suggestion. But, keep in mind, tires are tires; track conditions change at any track that is run, and some people may never get in Victory Lane no matter what tires they have.Or what horsepower rating, chassis, brand of Tear-Offs, or what they put in their fuel or oil.
Jeremy Dutton
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Post by Racerchaser on Aug 28, 2009 13:06:23 GMT -5
racerchaser you talk like someone with a paper ass. We all know there is not a car out there with out prep of some sort. We all know Hoosier and american both make a cheater tire ( your boy ricky knows real well) But to say you can buy a cheater track tire come on get real they are not racing for 10,000 to win the price of that tire would be out of this world. You know so much its not a stamp jacka$$. I will bet you money you cant get a cheater track tire. Also go ask Snookie what tires the boys are running he is selling them to them. As far as the champ show goes its all what you have in your tires and tire selection. Go to where it all starts at and look at all the different chemicals for different track conditions( gokarts) leftturn, tell me one thing, why in god's name would i go to snookie's and buy my tires, when you can buy in quantity [40 to 60] from a dealer like hoffmans, pauch, western maryland, you can get any tire you want, and as you insist RAISED LETTERS, track tire, and all the other drivers don't know what you are running. But there again, stupid is, as stupid does. How much can you afford to lose on a cheater tire that you say I can't order...
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Post by leftturn on Aug 28, 2009 17:04:08 GMT -5
Well lets get Jarvis Mills and HJ a set so then they will lap the whole field. You need to stop posting false info.
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Post by crazyness on Aug 28, 2009 18:47:51 GMT -5
HERES AN ADEA!!!!!!! SOMEBODY SET JARVIS MILLS AND BUNTING UP WITH A BRAND NEW SET OF TIRES TO RUN ONE NIGHT AND SEE HOW THEY RUN!!!!!!
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Post by leftturn on Aug 28, 2009 18:57:48 GMT -5
And let them start up front they still win if they have to come through the field they would be a top 3 to 5 car. Put the whole field on brand new tires handed out that night same out come as the other races this year they will be in the front. I can tell you know that all the cars are putting prep on there tires one way or another.
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Post by 91isback on Aug 29, 2009 8:22:39 GMT -5
l8modelmaninmdlan There was a guy on here a couple years ago that had something similar to say about the 47 car. He said that a monkey could drive that car, I think that guys name was truth. Now you come on here and say if you put Davis Lingo or pj in the 11 car they could win. WRONG Kenny drove the car for what almost 2 years and what he won 1 race. Sounds like we should rethink what we say and give the 11 crew some credit. They are not running a new chassie like some of the others, They work on there car all week and they are always trying to find more speed. They didnt go out and buy a magic car they worked on it to make it fast. If you think they are running cheater tires go down to snookie and buy them a couple sets im sure they would greatly appreciate it. Then you could say you helped a winning driver and team.
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Post by itsmydime10 on Aug 29, 2009 8:53:49 GMT -5
Fast cars strong motors good drivers !!!!! In my opinion they do not need to fool around with spending money on cheater tires they spent their money on "HORSEPOWER" oh and they can handle it !
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Post by l8modelmaninmodlan on Aug 29, 2009 10:10:53 GMT -5
Jarvis and his crew deserve all the credit in the world. They set the car up and I think the way it's hooked up alot of guys could win in the car. That is what I said, but its not his job to hook other people's cars up. JARVIS is the king of DIS right now. Does that make you feel better. Ask Jarvis if someone didn't walk out on the track after he won match race and shake his hand. You are right about KP not winning in the 11 car. He hasn't won in anything consistently for a while now, but that doesn't effect what he has done in the past. Someday a young gun will come along and beat Jarvis or whoever the king is at the time. I think KP could get in a car that is working and do well with it. Jarvis has things rolling and I take nothing away from him. He is driving the car as good as it can be driven. If you will see on another post I congratulated HJ on his 18 second laps. I like HJ and often pull for him. I have great respect for the budget he has run on in the past and his father is a legend and genius. I know Jamie, we joke around everyday. I have complete respect for him and his father ( a great car owner for years). It is guys like him who made the sport. What I said in past was wrong and I try to change my ways. I am not going to intentionally bash anyone, if that is the way it sounded then I apologize to those offended. I am on here to talk only about racing and I figured if people wanna bash each other I can play along. If you look at what was written you know what I have said about tires is true. Do you know more that a regional driver? I figure everyone is running them because you have to or get your tail kicked. My point is: Why run a tire rule you are not enforcing and everyone is having to pay over $300 a tire for? More for the treatment than the tire. Just open tire rule and let the guys learn more about tires and set ups. It seems like it is gonna cost alot either way. Do you think Racercahaser doesn't know what is going on? He has been around Racing longer than we have been alive. I am 100% sure of what is going on and he says its a known fact. Would Mills, Jarvis and Bunting still win without tire rule? Sure, they are the most experienced and some of the best around. If you are saying people won't pay for a fake tire because it is costly you have the paper ass. They spend $30,000 on motors, $15,000 on chassis and they won't spend $300 on a tire? I don't care if a racer is racing for $1 they are going to do what ever it takes to win. By the way, Mom says the pancakes are ready and I have made one special for you.
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Burt Q
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by Burt Q on Aug 29, 2009 10:31:59 GMT -5
Ok, some on here seem to think that the cheating with tires is rampant. Let's check the tires at a lab for "cheater" tires. Where, say between Dover and Pocomoke is there a lab to check for illegal tire prep or non spec, track marked tires. If there is a lab within a reasonable distance, what's the cost of checking a set of tires? Who's going to pay for this. For my 2 cents, check the tires with a durometer and if the tire is not within some limits, it is illegal. Well, that should be about 2 cents worth.
Burt Q
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Post by racer63 on Aug 29, 2009 11:07:58 GMT -5
I'm pretty good friends with an unmentioned top SLM driver at Hagerstown. Believe me, the top cars there are getting tires that are stamped HTMA and marked as a D55 but are not 55's.
As far as Delmar goes I thought it was legal to treat tires. Lol
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Post by brentyjames on Aug 29, 2009 13:25:03 GMT -5
I'm pretty good friends with an unmentioned top SLM driver at Hagerstown. Believe me, the top cars there are getting tires that are stamped HTMA and marked as a D55 but are not 55's. As far as Delmar goes I thought it was legal to treat tires. Lol jon your a cheater!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! d**n YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! lol jk
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Post by leftturn on Aug 29, 2009 14:28:32 GMT -5
Hay ass munch how many times do we have to tell you come with proof then we will believe. I talked to Snookie to see if what i herd about jarvis was true. He said jarvis has buying his legal tires from him all year, so if he has cheater tires why would he be buying legal tires and not using them, so go and buy the top two in point in both lm and bb a couple sets of legal tires and watch them win. Then Buy them a set of your cheater tires and watch them lap the field.
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